457. How John Tunnell Built a 64 Million Dollar Insurance Agency (From Scratch)

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What's in this episode:
John Tunnell started from scratch in 2007 and built a $64 million book of business across multiple locations. Michael and Courtney Weaver sit down with John Tunnell for one of the most honest conversations ever on The Insurance Buzz - covering the mindset shift that took him from $11 million to $64 million in four years, the fear he had to overcome, and what it really looks like to go from agent to CEO.

Michael and Courtney Weaver go deep with John Tunnell on the hard side of scaling - the people who can't grow with you, building culture across a remote team of 45+, gamified competitions, core values, and the moment John finally handed off payroll after 19 years. If you want to build an agency that runs without you, this episode is the blueprint.

[00:00] From $11M to $64M in four years
[02:00] Getting over fear and betting on yourself
[05:00] The agent to CEO mindset shift
[07:00] What John still owns as CEO and why
[10:00] Building culture across a remote team
[12:00] Flying the whole team in for recognition
[13:00] The weekly gamified competition
[14:00] John Tunnell's five core values
[21:00] Why some people can't scale with you
[28:00] The pressure to perform at scale
[33:00] Handing off hiring firing and payroll
[36:00] Using AI tools and zip code heat maps
[37:00] The non-negotiables at $64 million
[39:00] Follow John Tunnell at @tunnelagency

Follow John Tunnell on Instagram: @tunnelagency

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The dis the disadvantage in sales is like there's never a moment where you just sit down and be like, Okay, well, we we did it, we had a great month, and it starts all over again, you're at zero, and I think that's hard. So I think my intention would be just to have a moment where we can just kind of celebrate as a team the success, as even if it's for one day together, and just not have to talk about metrics at all. Like, you know, just have fun. Advantage in sales is like there's never a moment where you just sit down and be like, Okay, well, we we did it, we had a great month, and then it starts all over again, you're at zero, and I think that's hard. So I think my intention would be just to have a moment where we can just kind of celebrate as a team the success, as even if it's for one day together and just not have to talk about metrics at all. Like, you know, just have fun.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

This is the insurance buzz, and we are your host, Michael and Courtney Weaver. We coach insurance professionals, business owners, and people just like you every day on how to live a life and have a business you are excited about.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Here on the insurance buzz, we share the wins, the losses, and everything in between that comes with being married business partners, training in the insurance space, and growing our business side by side. We also connect with other business owners and leaders making their mark in the world and hopefully inspire you to make yours.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

From 11 million to $64 million book of business in just four years, we sit down with John Tunnell and he walks us through exactly what it took to get there, the lessons he learned along the way, the lessons he is still learning today. This is one of the most transparent conversations I feel like we've ever had on the buzz. And I am super excited for you to tune in today. With that being said, let's start the show. Hey, welcome to the insurance buzz. We are your host, Michael and Courtney Weaver, and we have a very special guest with us today, Rockstar Agent John Tunnell. And I just want to preface this 19 years ago started as a scratch agent, and today he is sitting at 64 million in premium. John, welcome to the buzz. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Thank you for that nice introduction. My name and rockstar don't usually go hand in hand, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Hey, anytime we are talking to an agency owner that comes on the buzz, especially that has that much. I mean, you just walked us through our yeah, your journey, but your growth, I'm excited to jump into in the buzz. You are an absolute rock star, and I know that your team is also, you're surrounded by rock stars, so I'm pumped to jump into today. So with that being said, let's go ahead and talk about. So the thing how where I want to jump into is, and you walked us through this uh in the pre-show. So zero to fifteen years, you did great. I mean, you were roughly up to 11 million in premium. In the last four years, you went from 11 million to 64 million. I'm not necessarily concerned right now how you did that. What I'm concerned with, or not really the question I have is what changed? Like, was it a mindset change? Was it a goal change? Did something in your life happen where you're like, okay, it's time to take things to the next level? Because what you've done is absolutely extraordinary. So I want to know like what changed, what happened that made you want to just get things in gear and take it, take your business to the next level?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I I think it's a combination of a lot of things. It's like the journey I think evolved over from when I started to where we were a few years back. And you know, I've I felt like I don't want to be selfish, but I felt like if we're gonna spend a lot of time, you know, I still had 10, 15, 20, however many years left. It's like, okay, there's an opportunity to start to buy books of business. Like, does it make sense? And I, you know, I just had to get over that fear of uh what happens if it does if we don't make it? What happened? Because I mean, as a scratch agent, from starting in 2007, even to now, like in my mind, I'm always broke, even though you know it's I'm very fortunate to be able to pay bills when they come due and you know, not have to worry so much about payroll, but it's like there's a lot of responsibility as an agency owner. I think the team doesn't always see the people think, oh well, that's great, you're you're here, and that doesn't apply to me, but it does because I had to just get that mindset. Like, I gotta bet on myself versus other people at that point. Like, people were saying, you know, this is the ideal size. Well, why? Why can't we be bigger? Uh, why can't we have more of a team? And I I kind of had to make that mind shift. I talk a lot about it with some friends. It's like you kind of have to go from that mindset as an agent, like hands-on, to more of a CEO mentality, and just being able to realize, like, if you have the right people in place, the right processes in place, you can really build something uh more than just a job. Like, I didn't want to have a job as an agent. Like, they will not, even though I miss those days, they won't let me talk to the people on a day-to-day basis just so we don't lose customers. Because I'll tell them, you know, like it pay your bill, just do it. Like, you know, you you start to get kind of jaded, but to answer your question, I think it was just that mindset. Like, I I don't understand why this is where we like, why can't we grow bigger than a $10, $11 million agency at that point? And um, just kind of getting over the fear of failure, you know, because it was really tough, and I remember those early years, and it's like you just live in so much fear every time you spend money or you hire someone, they don't work out, and it's just a it's a lot of pressure. So I think just getting comfortable with the uncomfortableness of everything, just kind of I was like, I brought in a operations manager, and I was like, this is my vision, this is what I'm thinking, and you know, fortunately she was supportive of that, came at a smaller agency size and helped us get to that next level. So uh kudos to her for believing in that.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, so just to dive in that a little bit, when you talk about, and I appreciate you talking about fear and uh the fear of failure and things like that, and so I would be curious what maybe if you can remember, like what was one of your biggest struggles that you had to work through going from that agent to CEO role, because that's one thing that we get asked out about a lot, and it's I always love to talk to other individuals that have gone through that process because I do I I also find that that is a very difficult transition to go from hands-on uh a lot of customers know who you are, you're in the day-to-day operations to now you're leading an organization, you're leading a team, you're more of that true leader. So I'd be curious like what was one of your personal like struggles, if you remember, going from that agent to CEO role?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Uh very easy answer, control, like lack of lack of being in control, because well, if I have them do it, it's not gonna get done the same. And just being okay with that 80%, if they're as efficient as you 80% of the time, it's okay, it's gonna make work itself out. But just giving up control is the honest assessment. You know, we can make a case for a lot of different reasons, but at the core of it, just being trusting, embracing change, like empowering the team, and just knowing they'll probably do a much better job than I can, you know, once they figure it out and you give them the tools and the resources to help empower them.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

I hear you. It's funny that you say 80% because I literally just had a conversation last week and I said, be okay with 80%. And she was like, Are you okay if I do? I'm like, Yes, I am okay with 80% because you are owning this one thing. And I think as a CEO, the thing that I've struggled with is you're you own a lot of different things, especially in the beginning. You have your hands and all of these things and you start working yourself out of those positions, and then you're left with well, now what is my role? Like what do I do? So I'm curious as you make this transition, what is the thing that you're left with that you're like, this is the thing that I will own? Like this is this is the thing I refuse to give up as the CEO of three locations.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Um I I still really like to get into the analytics of things. So, like, where where are we, you know, like what's our close rates on certain lead vendors? I I still like to have the relationship with those, even though I have powerful, capable people that I still enjoy that. Um marketing them, I still enjoy trying to make the decisions because I I feel like it's my responsibility number one to make the phone ring. So if it's not ringing, it's like I'm not probably doing the job. I and uh you know you can have people do that, but I I do it that brings me joy. Also, um as far as like leaders, like working with the so like we we kind of worked on the EOS model over the last few years as well. So um just trying to work in hands-on with you know the integrator just to make sure that they're you know have a good foundation, and I still enjoy kind of that leadership development. Um not so much like I like them to help develop their team, hire their team. I don't want to do the hiring just because I know that the problem with me is I like pretty much everybody I talked to, so we would just have a bunch of nice people, and it's like they they're not they're not good at sales, boss. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna hire anybody else.

unknown 9:48

My bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

But I I still I still enjoy that, and just you know, I think you know, helping uh create like right now we're doing a lot of process work because that's you know, over that expansion, it's like, oh my gosh, like it's in my mind, and I'm mad at this person because they can't read my mind, so like we have to just define everything and just make sure that you know, AYZ, this is our guide, and if and make sure that we're training people on that, and you know, just like what you guys have done with the AI training, it's just as important to work on the closing with the team. We need to make sure that they understand like the rules and how we do things. What is our like we had a discussion the other day, it's like hey, we have a you know, floor of liability limits that we feel comfortable presenting at at the end of because I've seen what's happened over the last you know several decades of what happens when they don't have the proper protection, and it's in my mind, but you know, as you bring on 30 or 40 other people, do they understand that that's important? Well, if you don't have anything defined in process work, you can't be upset that that's not happening. So just building that back up, I think, has been really enjoyable to me, just to make sure that my vision is still communicated there, and you know the trainings build upon that, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah. So so you run multiple locations, you have a ton of people both in office and remote, correct? We do. Okay. So my question is because this is something that we have struggled with in a remote environment, like, and we've kind of worked, we've been in what fully remote now since 2020. So we went through a lot of like things on trying to figure out. So I'd ask you like, how are you establishing a culture, like a culture of buy-in, a culture of standard of excellence? Like, what are you doing to help your culture specifically in a remote environment create that buy-in?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

That's a that's a loaded question, right? Give me the answer. So here's the easy button for you. No, I'm just kidding. But it's a it's a great question. So um I think some of the things that we've done to help that, because that to me was a problem uh that I needed to try to help solve because it's not the same as grabbing everybody and going to the coffee maker and say for five minutes, like, hey, these are our goals and so forth. So we transitioned to an online um Zoom meeting basically, Huddle uh every day. And what we've done, we do an all-agency one two times a week, and then we do just individual like sales service are separated three times a week just so they can kind of go over, you know, what's specific to them. They can do the role-playing and all that. Um, that's one component that I think's helped. Also, we use internal messaging, so if someone has a cell, you know, just the the banter, if you will, but um we did a this past January, we did a recognition event for last year, and we had a centralized location at Rosemont, Illinois, which is right by O'Hare, and flew everybody in and just did a big celebration. We had a you know dinner with DJ and we did some awards. We even you know, everybody there's a lot of glory in the cells, and you know, we did team member of the year, core value member of the year, that kind of thing, but we also just recognized everybody with a certificate of appreciation just for the work that goes in day to day. So just being able to hand that to somebody in person, I think, versus you know, some of the other things, but we've done like virtual escape rooms. Uh, we've done uh what I've what I've found is like fun to do is I'm trying to create a promo every week, and I built it out in base 44. Um, just like a simple promo. You know, right now we're doing a the 500 competition, so they get points for like customer reviews, that they get a Google review, that kind of thing, just to try to make it more interactive. We set up people on a team mix sells and service, and then when they score points, they tag in our internal uh Slack, and we have a a VA team member, and she goes in and reports it so they can see the race in live live time. So we did April showers last month, so it keeps me on the edge because uh on my toes because I have to make sure to have a fun contest, and if it fails, it's on me. But I have I think I've what I have seen is there's a lot more energy, if you will, like throughout the day. Uh just and we have a team shake and team bake. So as you know, the the memes are out there to support the contest. So we're having fun with it.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Shake and make. Uh let's let's freaking go. I love that because I um I agree that that's what my role has shifted more into is processes and people, is literally like the two Ps that I'm constantly toggling back and forth. But having more fun, I think, is always something that we're trying to create, and especially in a remote environment, how do we stay connected and how do we stay on track with our goals? Like, how do we make that more fun? I'm curious though, you said core values of the year. I would love to hear your core values.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Sure. Um be uh coach being coachable is one of our core values. We before me. Um those are the key components uh that we have. Um the we before me, I think, is really critical to our success, just because um we've had people in the past like, oh, that's you know, like they would argue over lead and that kind of thing. So um we just we wanted to develop our uh core values to reflect what was important to our the management helped develop this over the last two years, and so a few of them have been kind of like does this still make sense? And we've had to adapt them, but the two core values that we base all of our decisions uh being coachable. If you can't like even myself, like I have to be flexible enough to understand, like, hey, we've got a little bit of a turnover. What what's happening? Like, is it onboarding not happening correctly? Are we giving people like not interviewing properly? Are we giving them false expectations of what this is? Um being coachable the we before me. Um I I've got to pull them up. Like, I they're all over the place in my mind right now, but I can answer the rest of them. But those are the two big ones that we implemented.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

I love that you say the we before me because we get asked a lot because we're married and we've always worked together as a married couple, and it's like, what's what's your best advice? And it's very similar in business. It's like the marriage has to come first, just like the business has to come first. Like you have to base everything through that filter of how does this affect our marriage and how does this affect our business first before us as individuals. So I love that you have this culture of we before me as like the top of everything because that you're filtering everything through that lens of like how does this affect not just myself, but the entire team unit? Like, what does this do for the business as a whole?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

And here's the other one positive attitude. Like I we we need to like it's it's okay to have a bad day, but to bring the whole team around you down just because you're having a bad day, like we really try to focus on positive environments, so um positive attitude, self-accountable, and solutions-oriented. That's a big one, so I always don't get it straight, but you know, instead of saying like, hey guys, I have a problem, these leads suck, like hey guys, I I've noticed that we're getting this type, and here's what I would do different. Like, we're we're asking for the team to provide solutions, uh, and relationships matter, so it's not just a you know, policy number, it's not just a prospect, just really getting to know them as a person. So, and those are the five.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I do too.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, the weed before me is and if you're not all of these are really great because like positivity, I mean, there's a ton of data out there around if you have uh like your salespeople, like the more positive you are, the more optimistic you are, the more likely you are to achieve success in a sales environment. Obviously, you gotta put the team first, accountability. I love I love these. So you shared a few things. So you're meeting consistently on a weekly basis um with your team, or your team unit is meeting together both as an entire team, and then they also segment themselves. Uh, you have internal messaging through your Slack channel, which uh is the shake and bake competition. You're keeping it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

I don't know if it's Slack. We use Slack.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

I think you said Slack, right? Yeah, we use Slack. Yeah, okay. Um so you're using that, you're gammifying on a weekly basis, uh, which I love because that's keeping them, keeping in front of them on a weekly basis. You're getting together, are you getting together one time a year? Is that what your goal is? Or are you doing two times a year?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Just because of the size of the team, I I would have every intention to bring them in more often, but when you get like 45-50 people and then you include significant others into the mix, it can get kind of costly. Um, but we do our I'm having uh our leadership team in quarterly as well. So we're looking at different, you know. Uh we've actually paired up with a couple of fellow uh agency owners in the area that you know we'll just have somebody, yeah, like Greg Gray coming in uh just to talk to our leadership team, and then we we structure like out a day of have a couple different speakers uh come in just to kind of give, you know, coaching to coach, as you will. Um just making sure that we're supporting that. I in each quarter we're meeting the leadership team, and then um I haven't told the team yet, but we're actually looking at possibly trying to do like an all you know inclusive resort somewhere uh and break it up. Like I've seen other agents have success with it, but they break it up where some of the team comes in so that you still have coverage, and then some of them go back, and then they cover for the that part of the team. So yeah, if we can figure out the logistics on that, I think it's definitely you know, it it's fun to celebrate. I think the problem with an agent like myself is you know, I just expect, like, hey, we're we're a big agent, so we've got to grow, you know, and I I think we take that for granted. It's like, well, Michael, just sell more policies. That's you know, like that I'll send you some commission and that checks check the bar. Courtney, I don't know why I have to say, good job, like that's your rule, but I have to work on that myself just to remember. But I think we never pause to just like and that's the the there the disadvantage in sales is like there's never a moment where you just sit down and be like, okay, well, we we did it, we had a great month, then it starts all over again, you're at zero, and I think that's hard. So I think my intention would be just to have a moment where we can just kind of celebrate as a team the success, as even if it's for one day together, and just not have to talk about metrics at all, like you know, just have fun. Um that would be my intention. How that will work logistically, we're still working on that. I've actually brought in an outside uh person that has experience planning those for insurance agencies, so um, I'm looking to See what they can come up with that would work for our team. It's cool.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

I love that you said that. We just had this in a team meeting last week where I was like, stop, everyone, stop. Hold on. Take it, take it in for just a second. Like we're constantly moving the goalposts. It's like, wait, if we don't pause and actually celebrate this, our body will not know when we hit it. Like we have to reinforce this feeling so we learn to accept this feeling when it comes. Because if not, we'll continue to delay our reward. And you can only do that for so long. We're reward people, like as human beings. That's a part of our cycle. We need to, we need that reinforcement. So you you have to emphasize that. So that brings me to you went from 10 million, 11 million, to 64 million in four years. Your team size, I would be curious the dynamics that shifted there and what you had to go through from like a leadership position. Like what's the team at 11 million versus what's the team at 64? And I'm saying this because if somebody has like for myself, I don't have a fear of failure. I actually have a fear of success. So when things start to get too big, I want to pull back because I'm like, ooh, that's gonna take more of me, that's gonna take more work, that's gonna take more money, that's gonna take more time. So talk a little bit about what 11 to 64 was like from a team dynamic and leadership and what that that took from you.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

So I can paint the picture of chaos, right? So it's like I I really do think 11 million dollar agency, that my role was a lot more involved at that level. So I think as we scaled higher, I think the pressure kind of shifted more to the leadership team being accountable for some things when it's not working versus ultimately I am, but like you know, just being supportive if they make a bad hiring decision. Like I I told you so, Michael. I told you so, Courtney, you should never hire that person. Like you can't you can't do that. But I think where we saw I think the biggest challenges is that you know, minimum expectations, what is our benchmark? What are we willing to accept? And as we brought in other agencies, it's challenged because different, you know, it there's a reason why an agency just kind of becomes stagnant and not investing and marketing, not growing, and then you know, we we we have to be okay with the change, but the hard part I think was just are these you know, as sad as it is, the person that was a great salesperson in an 11 million dollar agency is not always a great one in a 64 million, like you know, a 20-item producer might be great fit in some agencies. Unfortunately, it doesn't kind of work in our environment just because of the investment that we have in leads, and you know, I I would say there's more of a pressure for an ROI to be positive in a larger agency than a smaller agency, um, is what I could probably equate to that. Leadership got messy because we would take, you know, if Courtney was in an agency that we took over, you know, whether it's right or wrong, my commitment was let's just bring them in, figure out if this is a good fit for our agency, keep them where they are in that role. It didn't always align with our core values, didn't align with kind of the fast pace of a busier agency. Um, and that's unfortunate because it's it's nothing against the person, it's just where they're at in their career and where we're going sometimes don't align. And I think for me, like I I really do and genu genuinely like people, and I think it's hard because you see people that aren't gonna be a good fit in six months, and you can see the writing on the wall, like it's like it it stinks, it sucks, you know. It's like I want this person to work out, however, they're not capable of that type of growth that we're going to. So to answer your question, I think we had more turnover, and I think you know, you just have to realize that being a larger agency, you're gonna have higher turnover just because you don't have the luxury of like, you know, when your payroll, I mean it I have higher payroll like on a bi-month monthly basis than I had probably in 10 years when I was a small agent. It's like, oh my gosh, like we gotta get everybody kind of aligned faster than possible. So I think to that also, it's like you know, we're not the right fit for every candidate out there in the licensed agent role. Like it's like if you can't get up to speed quickly, unfortunately, we're not good whether you're LSP or a manager. So I think that was the biggest change, and you know, having more of an impact on growth, like at a bigger size, like you know, you're you're losing six-seven million dollars out the door in a year as is, just with normal, decent retention, if you will. So I think that that you just have to be, I think, just not focused so much on the the numbers as closely, even though you have to, but use outside sources like you know, an accountant, an attorney. Um, I didn't have to think about that at a 10-11 million dollar. Like everything that we did, we could control momentum a lot faster than we can control now. Um but I guess the advantage if there's changes, you know, we can adapt to changes, we can add we we have a lot of processes to provide a lot of leads a day. So if we need to scale back, we can do that quicker and probably you know we can cut not that you want to say this, but you want to say it like if if something happened to like commission skills or something and it gets cut back, we can absorb that a lot easier than I could at 10 million. Because if I lose two producers, that might be my whole year at a 10 million dollar. If I lose two or three people here, it's like okay, more leads for everybody else at that point. So uh and I say that as kindly as I can. For sure, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Yeah, that's just the economics of it. Like as you grow, you have more people to spread that around.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Um, you've been, and I just want to say thank you for being very transparent with like you made a statement earlier, something to do with uh I wrote it down, I can't find it right now because I have a page full of notes, but the pressure to perform. Like your pressure to perform is greater now than it was at 10 or 11 million. And so, and you just walked us through a lot of what you're going through on a day, week, monthly basis with some of the stressors, your leadership team, the decisions you're having to make, and I appreciate you saying this because I I think there's a stigma out there that j, oh, you have a huge agency, so you're just making a shit ton of money, and it's like, well, yeah, but also no, like there is a ton of pressure for you to perform because you have so many more people on your team, your expenses are so much larger that you have to perform to pay the bills. Now, yes, with a bigger size agency, you do have the ability to also maybe cut in other aspects that a smaller agency doesn't cut to get the cash that you would need to get, but those are also really tough decisions to make. Um, and so like there's nothing there's nothing easy about like your where you're at in your role, um, it looks a lot different than 10 and 11 million, but that doesn't mean it's even any easier. Like the decisions just get tougher. The role, in my experience, just gets tougher because of the decisions you have to make.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

And I think a fortunate because we have, you know, we have a core leadership team, like we have uh right now seven people that help support, you know, and we do the level 10 meetings like from the EOS background, which basically means just I sit on on that, and that's kind of like where you know, I get up to speed on everything, so I still have a pulse on the agency, even though I'm not like in the you know, taking granny's uh payment, talking about the cats anymore kind of environment. But I still get you know, hey, here's a customer highlight, here's a LSP highlight of the week, that kind of thing. So um, but I think although that pressure, like my role is not to freak them out all the time, so it's like you know, oh my gosh, like we gotta cut back on this. You did you see this went up? But I think it's it you have to be physically responsible, and I think it's important to have leadership that can be mature enough to understand, like, if you talk about a bill that we need to cut it back a little bit, that they can have the foresight to be like, okay, well, we're making decisions because we're looking six months out versus like today we're gonna have to cut people. Oh my gosh, I gotta go back and tell the whole team. Um, so it's just that emotional maturity, I think. And I I look at our core values, and like, you know, probably in 2010, I wasn't always that positive because I was in the day-to-day calls, and it's like you have to remind yourself a person needs so much love in that service chair, you know, because they're the ones that are taking the heat, and you have to remind yourself it's like, okay, can this person be positive and work in that role? What can we do to help support that through technology, through training? Technology training as you guys have a great product in that. Um, but just you know, just help them think differently and try to look through their eyes versus you know our eyes, and sometimes we just look at it as an expense where it's more of an investment in our team. So um, but I'm very fortunate to have leadership that A supports the vision, but B buys into it and understands their role in making it happen long term.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

I love that you say this, John. I I literally I'm like I'm vibing with you so much because uh the vision is literally the the one thing that we can't give up. Like we can pretty much delegate everything else, hiring, firing, like uh almost every single number we can give away. But the vision, the thing that we are working towards and getting everyone bought in on and realigning attitudes and expectation really comes down to us. Like, where do we see this thing going? And what are our different ways that we can get there? That's through collaboration. But I love that you're saying this because the biggest thing that I have struggled with is having more time on my calendar because I'm not in the day-to-day as much. And that time has actually gone to complex thinking. Like, okay, let's think through bigger problems, let's think through where we're headed, not in six months, but in six years. Like, what does this look like? Let's back into all of this. Who do we need? Where are we struggling? What are we doing really well? Ooh, I noticed they were off. What what is the thing that's making them off? Like just trying to pick up on little cues. So I'm curious with your leadership team, what decisions do they have privy to make? Like what uh what have you let them make decisions on? Hiring, firing, um, numbers-wise, I'm curious on on what they have reigned to do.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Uh pretty much, I mean, all the above. I mean, uh, I think they're to the point when I start asking about specific people and like what they're doing, they kind of pick up on it as like maybe I should look a little close to see is this person soon to be gone. Um just and I and I challenge them like just to make sure that they're looking at the same activity metrics that I would look at, like call gap reporting. Like it, you know, I could hide a lot in 2007 when I started, like, from you know, if I didn't feel like doing much, I didn't do much, right? Like nowadays it's like we're looking for somebody that can give us three and a half hours of talk to. Is that I mean, we're talking an eight-hour day, nothing. Um, but we have people that struggle with that. So, like, if I bring that up, they're usually pretty good about seeing, you know. Um, I don't want to I'll call it dead weight because that's what it is. It's just like couldn't these resources be spent better if we invested more in leads for the rest of the people minus this person. So um, but yeah, they hire, they onboard, they train, they fire. Um, I gave up payroll recently to and that was a big step for me. Like, it took me 19 years to finally like it was okay, you can do it. And I I struggled with that, but I I we were in um for spring break with my kids and um my wife. I'm like, you know, what if I would have forgot to do payroll three days ago before I left? Like nobody else can do it, and then I think too, you know, you look at legacy planning for your agency and you know, succession planning. What happens if something happens to me? You want to make sure that everybody on your team doesn't lose a job, and payroll can still be managed, and we have that in place. So um, that was a big step for me. So I I empower the team pretty much. There's somebody on our leadership team that can pretty much do anything that I can do, including like vendors, you know, if they want to mess around with the leads, I let them do that. So I still have my hand in the the data, and you know, that very well could be replaced by AI. Like I I'm no scientist by any means.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

So I could teach you how to prompt it if you want to pretend that you're a data scientist. Oh, yeah, I think that way.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

I've built out some cool tools myself that I and it it's amazing because like I didn't know the prompts, and then Claude would teach me the prompts and be like, ask it to do this. I'm like, oh okay. It's amazing. Yeah, sure. But you start talking in this whole other lingo, and I think that's really important. I think I would challenge anybody that's like 10 years, 15 years, one year in, like, always be open-minded to what's around you to use it as a tool to go forward, versus like, oh my gosh, AI is coming for us. Like, you know, yes, cloud gave me the prompts, but you still have to have intelligence enough to say this is what I'm trying to do with this, versus just you know, and the first time I did like a zip code heat map where we were quoting and closing, it looked like I a drawing I had done in like kindergarten, but then when you bring in like you know, maps of actual things and it looks like a real state versus just like a little scribble, like it's it's amazing what how it's changing. But if I was stuck in my way, it's like, well, that's not how we've always done it, and just ran an old spreadsheet. I think it it's just a reminder, like you just always have to keep your mind open to change because it's always gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

I love that. So good. Okay, one last question because we did touch on expectations. What's non-negotiable in your office that you're like, ooh, this is dead weight, this person isn't gonna make it.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Well, we're a sales organization, so if they can't sell something, like I mean, sales of service, services sells. If you can't sell stuff, like the train station is happening. So like you we we we have to have ROI, like positive ROI. So gotta sell something. If you can't, um so we have key metrics, so we look at items, then we look at serious quotes, then we look at talk time, and then you know, like, did we get anything? Like, did we get a Google review? Anything like just we have to have something. Um, and we're very like, I want to say we try to scare people away when we're interviewing salespeople, just because it's like you're walking into a it it's not a train that can slow down for like it it's unfortunate, and I think that's another problem with um scaling so much is like that hands-on day-to-day stuff that used to exist at $10 million, it's just not feasible at our size. And so, like, we really have to have them like are they open-minded, are they coachable? And the minute that I hear them say, like, not that I would, but the managers they're like, well, you know, they're telling me that that's not how they did it, that agency, and blah blah blah, and it's like, well, unfortunately, like we we need to scare this person and make sure that they understand, like, we're not just like you know, a slow-paced environment, like we're really fast-paced. If you can't be on the phone for three and a half hours on inbound transfers, on you know, like with all the tools, and you can't, you know, interact with an AI coach for 10-15 minutes a day, like it it's not gonna work long term. So amen. The non-negotiable would be like the sales, though. Like, you gotta have something.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

I I love that you said that. Like, literally, as that's the clip. He literally gave you We are a sales organization.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Like, there it is. And you said something, you said sells as service, services sells. I love that. Um, I'm gonna quote that. I wrote it down. That's good because you are 100% right. So, John, this has been favorite.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

I literally want to take this offline and just keep keep going because I love this conversation and I appreciate your transparency. Like talking about you have a monster book of business, 64 million. There are people listening right now that are like, what in the hell? I didn't even know that was possible. So thank you for being really, really honest about what it looks like, how you did it, like what you're still going through today. Like, I love it. Thank you so much for for sharing your time with us.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, John, this has been fantastic. Um, for all of those of you who did tune in today, thank you for your time. John, if somebody wanted to follow you in your journey, what's the best way for them to do that?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

I make some pretty corny stuff on Instagram under at tunnelagency. So follow and laugh away or throw tomatoes at me, either way.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

No, that's that's perfect. We've been connected a long time on social media. You do a great job. So make sure you uh click the link below, follow him there. Other than that, friends, thank you so much for your time and attention. They are by far your most important asset. We appreciate you spending time with us today. So go out, make it great. John, thank you again, my man. You crushed today.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Thanks for listening to this episode of the insurance buzz. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, and leave a rating and review. If you want to take your insurance agency to the next level and join our community, simply check out Weaver Sales Academy at www.weaversa.com. Again, that's www.weaversa.com, or visit the show notes on our new and current programs we have available exclusively for you. As always, time is the most valuable and important asset that we all have, and I appreciate you spending it with me. See you on the next episode.